Thrash Hits

June 20th, 2013

Tits @ Download Festival 2013

After a weekend of watching bands at Download Festival, Tom Doyle returned to his 9-5 in London feeling more than a little uncomfortable. What was the matter, though? Tits. Boobies. Breasts. And booing.

Download Festival 2013 logo thrash hits

We are now firmly in the aftermath of last weekend’s Download Festival and while heads and limbs may now finally be recovering, the memories will surely last a lifetime. Donington Park yet again proved itself to be the home of rock and astonishing sets from the likes of Slipknot, Iron Maiden, Rammstein and many, many others made it a vintage year.

However, something slightly less cool once again raised its head in that field last weekend and it’s about time it gets addressed.

Let’s be as clear as possible here: if a girl is in the crowd and on someone’s shoulders and a camera pans on to her, it is not mandatory that she get her tits out. Not ever. There’s nothing more depressing than seeing a (usually quite young) girl exposing herself to the cheers of thousands of braying morons followed by someone with a little more modesty being openly and aggressively booed for their refusal to meet with the mobs desires.

This weekend saw cameramen make repeated visits to those who refused to lift their tops first time of asking until peer pressure proved too much and they succumbed. Who the hell are these cameramen, incidentally? I didn’t realise operation Yewtree was already finding jobs for offenders back in the community.

Think about the following: if one person put continual pressure on a girl to get her breasts out if she didn’t want to, that person would be rightly berated; if 90,000 strangers in a field do, it is suddenly considered a big joke.

At one stage, a man in his 30s standing behind me was bellowing at a girl on the big screen who can’t have been much older than 19 to, “GET ‘EM OUT, YOU SLAG!” One can only wonder at the sexual inadequacies that could possibly induce such latent anger and whether or not his mother (or wife, or possibly even daughters) knows he behaves this way on the weekend.

download festival boobs steel panther 2012 NO

This is a photo from the official Download Festival website from Steel Panther’s 2012 set – possibly the zenith/nadir (depending on your stance) of flashing in public.

To speak personally for a moment, I spend a seemingly increasing amount of my time defending metal and rock music to people who are not familiar with ‘our’ subculture. These are people who have made their minds up about fans of heavy music as imbecilic animals who are slaves to baser instincts than those who attend V festival or Glastonbury, for instance.

When I tell them that I like Slipknot, or Korn, or Rammstein they look at me like I am a feral pig who should probably grow up and move on. The music I listen to means a lot to me and I am proud to defend it, yet when people see things like tit-flashing being cheered at metal and rock festivals their prejudices are confirmed in spades. In short, we are better than this.

Metal, punk and hardcore should be a place for people to get away from the set gender dichotomy that is imposed upon us in the ‘real’ world, often from an early age. The one that says that boys are braying hooligans and that girls are there as pretty pieces of meat to be gawped at.

If you were at Download cheering and whooping at a girl who decided to take her top off for a cameraman then maybe you should take some time to ask yourself why you did it and what you think that says about us as a community. Go on. I‘m not one for prudishness and I am not the thought police on this matter but it strikes me that it is another example of the metal boys club treating women as second-class citizens in a culture that is supposed to be for all of us.

Finally, an enormous shout out to the girl I saw (whoever you are) who motioned to pull her shirt down as the camera reached her before flipping the bird to all and sundry as they booed her to high heaven. In a weekend of musical highlights, it was maybe the most punk thing of the entire festival.

—–
UPDATE: We’ve received the following from the promoters of Download Festival, which is cool.

Live Nation does not condone such behaviour in any way. The incident in question is being taken very seriously and is currently under investigation.

—–

SECOND UPDATE: Andy Copping, Festival booker for Download Festival and Promoter for Live Nation, tweeted the following earlier today (Saturday, 22 June 2013):

 

We’d love to know your thoughts on this, so let us know your thoughts below.


Comments

  • Emily

    Aside from shaming the girls who do flash, I’m so glad someone said this. It sucks that this attitude can be found in sub-cultures that claim to be so progressive and different, but if anyone’s gonna fight against it, it’s gonna be rad-as-hell, punk girls.

    • Tom

      Hi Emily,

      I’m sorry if you feel this piece was shaming those who do decide to flash, that was not its intention but if it has come across that way then I apologise.

      Thanks

      Tom

      • Emily

        I don’t think that really comes across, so don’t worry about it! I was referring more to a general shaming attitude towards them, as in, people seeing them flash and branding them ‘sluts’ or ‘easy’ or whatever.

      • Ned

        The use of ‘modesty’ in the second paragraph had a bit of a shamey vibe, but in general, a good piece!

      • Billy Morris

        I feel like if a woman wants to flash she has every right to but I do not agree that she should be pressured into doing it or that anyone who doesn’t is bad in any way.

  • Christopher Smyth

    BOOOOOOOOOObies

  • zeus

    Will the next article be moaning about bands telling crowds what to do, how dare they tell us to sit down, or to crowd surf and put us under that kind of pressure? I also saw the cameras pan at guys who flashed their chests, is this to be frowned on also? I for one am not interested in seeing an unbathed 16 stone lass with saggy tits flash to 90,000 people, but there certainly are a lot more important issues at festivals and within the music network that could be focussed on than a 19 year old girl flashing her tits. I do respect your opinion and in some ways agree with the moral behind it however, the bottom line is, forcing them would be physically pulling their shirts up. I think you may be giving said ‘flashers’ to much respect, Covering up, claim to fame attempts, with the terms ‘peer pressure’.

    • http://www.thrashhits.com/ Raz

      You’re an idiot.

      • zeus

        Your article reads like 89,999 burly men forced a girl to get her baps out, You also mentioned when giving an example of “if 90,000 strangers in a field do, it is suddenly considered a big joke”…

        Pinning actions of some drunkern blokes on a whole festival crowd is not cool, the subject in question is not attractive, it’s not great but is it really that much of an issue we need to call in the fun police?

        For the record here is a compilation of girls being ‘forced’ to flash their tits via ‘peer pressure’ as you suggest. Look how unhappy they are..

        http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xslro0_download-festival-2012-tits-compilation_redband

        As i said, i do agree with the moral of your report, but is it really worthy of a whole article or is their more interesting things to report on?

        It’s a debate, having a different opinion to yourselves, does not make me an idiot.

      • Geoff Owen

        They love it hem birds. They love it. Look at them.

      • Geoff Owen

        Also Thrash Hits, you must only write articles about the most important thing in the world. As several other things in the world exist that are seen to be more important, please delete this article from the internets.

      • http://www.thrashhits.com/ Raz

        I don’t get it. Is it a debate or should it not be spoken about? You seem uncomfortable.

      • Sarah Dyer

        I’m guessing you’re the type of guy that thinks girls genuinely find certain jokes funny when they laugh at them, rather than thinking that maybe they’re laughing out of politeness and actually feel belittled, ashamed or insulted.

      • dog_of_flame

        it’s your opinions and the manner in which you express them that make you an idiot. all the best x

      • HeyLyla

        So then, can we talk about the girl I saw on shoulders having her shirt pulled down by the guys in front of her in the crowd when she wouldn’t flash?

      • Aidan Jones

        As long as you’re not going to pretend that the particular minority doing such a thing were 90,000 people, why not?
        But the point is, from inside the crowd, it was a distinct minority of loud assholes who were trying to impose their will upon these girls, and they were often being chastised by other blokes in the crowd (I know the one guy I saw trying to pull a girl’s shirt down got kneed pretty harshly in the nuts, because I did it).

    • Alex

      I saw a man try to pull the shirt up of the woman on his shoulders when the camera focused on her…

  • dog_of_flame

    since when has heavy metal been inclusive

  • lovetoblock

    Well said. If someone wants to get their boobs out then I guess that’s their prerogative, but thousands of men booing some young girl for not doing it? It’s creepy, scary, and properly fucked up. Is it so hard for people to just be NICE to each other?

  • Calum McMillan

    Couldn’t agree more with this. I’d written a piece on a similar ideas in alternative music myself. I guess festival seasons puts this kind of thing in the air. It’s great to see people bringing up the important stuff.

    Top work as always gents!

  • Geoff Owen

    Well said. If you’re shouting at girls to get their tits out you’re no different to that guy in Yates’s on a Saturday night. If that’s how you are then fine but at least accept it. Don’t pretend you’re any better just because you’re wearing a t-shirt with a skeleton on it instead of Ben Sherman.

  • Tbag

    I would like to know who directs the cameramen too – what part of the production is that where their brief for the day is “more boobs, Download loves that”

  • Alex Loveless

    Spot on. It’s a fucking disgrace. I felt quite appalled by it all weekend (well, the bits I can remember!)

  • The Captain

    Why did I cheer for the ladies who flashed? Because breasts are beautiful. And if anyone, male or female, had the integrity to not show their goods under peer pressure, then they too have my respect. Hounding a non-flasher is a bit wrong, I agree, but don’t lambast those who decided to show a bit of flesh because it’s all to easy to get caught up in the atmosphere at the time. The moral of the story, kids, is: If you don’t want to flash; don’t. A little bit of booing by people you probably don’t give two shits about because you stuck to your morals shouldn’t give you a psychological breakdown.

    • lovetoblock

      The whole point of this article is that it’s more than just “a bit” of booing. It’s being surrounded by a LOT of booing simply for not getting their boobs out. You seem to have missed that.

      • The Captain

        The point of this article was to give one guy’s opinion on the matter. My reply was to give mine. You seem to have missed that. I agree with the fact that cameramen shouldn’t hound a girl because she didn’t instantly whip her top off, but ultimately the choice is down to them. The girl who gave the camera the finger showed plenty more integrity and metaphorical balls and clearly didn’t care if she got a LOT of booing for it.

      • MsMetal

        As a woman I can say with full confidence that ladies don’t mentally mature until their mid-to-late twenties. Ladies, up until that point, are incredibly impressionable and are more likely to be negatively affected by the booing. Good judgement calls aren’t always made when you’re not yet matured enough to realize the lasting impact on your self-view. When you’re matured enough you are much more resolute in your choices and aren’t as easily pushed by peer-pressure.
        Yes, it is their choice, but some of those young ladies are probably not matured or old enough to be asked to flash the masses in good conscience.

      • Androgenous

        As a lady YOU can only talk about YOURSELF, and no one else in confidence – Just like the man who wrote this article isn’t speaking for me.

        The cheering or booing is reactionary. It would be different if the crowd, as one, shouted in a loud voice “get your tits out” and physically removed the women from their midst who didn’t.

        How is writing an article about the women who do flash any different from the idiots booing those that don’t flash? Ultimately, you’re not those girls, you don’t make their decisions for them. Stop thinking that you’re taking a moral highground, when ultimately you’re still a man telling women what to do with their bodies. If you’re ashamed that people are sexual, surgically remove your own organs, and identify yourself as fully neutral. Even then, however, you have no authority to tell people what they should, and shouldn’t enjoy sexually.

    • Guest

      If this was true, then people would have cheered even when heavier girls flashed their “goods” – guess what? They weren’t. Apparently, breasts can only be beautiful if their owner just walked out of a Nuts photoshoot.

  • BOBSHOW

    You must hate Motley Crue!!!

  • Patrick H

    well, the next question would then be, how representative is download for the «metal scene» – as there are loads of peeps who will only go there and to bigger rock concerts. as somebody who went to countless underground shows, I’ve never seen boobs being flashed there – so yes, the question is how tall the correlation between download tits and having to defend the metal scene for its decency really stands.

    • http://www.thrashhits.com/ Raz

      It represents the majority / the mainstream rather than the underground / the minority.

      There’s a different question to be asked about a crust punk taking a dog to a gig. Did they supply earplugs, for instance?

  • Bowaz

    I must admit at last Download I was one of those cheering for boobs. I never gave it a second thought as it was done in good humour. It must be scary for a girl to stand her ground when 1000′s of guys and girls (yes even girls) demand boob.

  • Whitters

    Jesus Christ. What a shit article. Girls get their tits out at every festival, not just metal ones and not just recently.
    It’s funny. They don’t have to do it. The guys aren’t all stood round her with a hard-on, it’s just funny while waiting ages for the band to come on. You wouldn’t be moaning about tits coming out in the 80′s would you. It’s rock n roll for fuck sake.
    Would you prefer the men were included too, an equal share of nobs and tits?

    • Rotten

      fucking A, we’re becoming a bunch of pre-goddamn-madonnas ffs

      • Ross Thompson

        It’s prima-donna (first lady), not pre-madonna (before motherhood).

  • Laura Knight

    What REALLY wasn’t cool is that more than once I saw a girl cover herself up or shake her head, only for someone else to reach up and pull her top down. I don’t care if that was her best mate, boyfriend or a stranger in the pit, exposing someone to a crowd of 90,000 against their wishes is awful.

    • http://www.thrashhits.com/ Raz

      I saw that too. I believe that’s called sexual assault?

      “It’s rock ‘n’ roll for fuck sake.”

      • Rotten

        Look that shits bad and they’ll get smacked for it, or someone will pick on them in the mosh pit, but chrissalmighty we don’t need an article on it, and furthermore guys get mooned or thrown into the mud on cam, which is far more humiliating, seriously if this moderate liberal media weren’t such annoying bastards in condemning the human body as a private and sanctified thing then it wouldn’t be such an issue, neither would the male problems I was talking about, all this wingeing in metal in trying to make it this happy go lucky place for everyone isn’t what the music is about, Jesus Christ, it sounds like you should all go listen to some other genre more suited to your beliefs.

      • Ned Tolenet

        Being thrown in the mud at a festival is more humiliating than being pressured by thousands of people to get your tits out?

      • genwilliams

        Er… yes, we do need an article on it. If a fuck-ton of people were braying for girls to get their tits out, then a little education wouldn’t kill them. The fact that one guy who does it *might* get a smack from some righteous dude next to him isn’t going to discourage all the people who didn’t see him get a fat lip and still think it’s funny to treat a girl like a peepshow.

        “Some other genre more suited to your beliefs” – sorry, I didn’t realise metal was an exclusive, sexist hangout.

    • Cheryl Cavanagh

      I saw that happen a few times too, which is in no way right. If someone WANTS to flash 90,000 people go for it, but if someone is being pressured into it – or worse being exposed against their will… thats in no way acceptable. If that happened in the street they’d be arrested… yet in a field at a festival ‘because they’re drunk’ apparently makes it totally ok….

  • Bob Jackson – From the UK!

    You fucking retard. Boobs, beer a HEAVY FUCKING METAL!

  • Supadave

    If girls didnt want to get their tits out, they wouldnt have tits to begin with, would they.

    • Emily

      Oh yeah, I should have checked the ‘No Boobs’ option when I was in the womb. I should have known as a fetus that it was MY duty, as a woman, to flash my tits at whoever demanded to see them just because I had them!

  • Cheryl Cavanagh

    This is spot on and I’m glad it was written by a guy as if a girl had said these things it would be seen as bitchyness.

    Peer pressure no matter what the ‘masses’ are pressuring people into is wrong. You wouldnt pressure someone in the street to ‘get their tits out’ so why is it ok on a camera in front of 90,000.

    If they choose to ‘go for it girls’ if they’re not happy to do it voluntarily they shouldnt be repeatedly hounded by camera men or a crowd full of men.

    And the “oh the men are drunk, they dont mean any harm” people have been jailed for ‘assaults’ such as these.

    The reason I’ve always loved the Rock/Metal World as it makes me feel comfortable as a female music fan in the enviroment but issues such as these just build up the stereotypes ‘outsiders’ have of our genre.

    The fact is we’re all equal, and women shouldn’t be treated is objects or ‘groupies’ we’re all in for the same reason (well most of us).

  • RJMrgn

    Looks like all the people defending this sort of behaviour are men. Funny that.

  • Ned Tolenet

    I think there’s no argument that repeatedly aiming a camera on a girl who may or may not be of a certain age with the intention of making her show her tits to thousands of people is pretty fucked up.

    Rather than convincing the morons of this comment section that they are being incredibly shortsighted with their assertions that it is ‘rock and roll’, perhaps we could think of other things Festival organisers could display on the main screens in between bands.

    Seems like a great opportunity to get messages, information, or even just entertainment out to huge numbers of people. Even just promote bands or organisations that speak to the demographic of the festival. Not encourage sexual harrassment.

  • Matt Bod Pittaway

    Dude you really need to grow some balls and realize some facts about Download …. 1st it a long standing tradition within rock music (even before the advent of the cameras at concerts) for girls ladies and women to sit atop a mans shoulders and bare their chests for all to see usually aimed at the frontman or other members of the band. 2nd if any woman has issue and bows to peer pressure at a gig is she really the kind of lady that’s likely to sit atop someones shoulders in the 1st place and 3rd Grow the hell up … why do people always take something that is in jest as an afront to women and their morals …. we have enough feminists in the world without the men joining in too

    • Geoff Owen

      You’re right. Now that equality has been achieved between the sexes we should all just relax, grow up and look at some sweet titties. No need to question sexist behaviour in a subculture that is supposed to offer something different from the mainstream.

    • Jim

      You’re totally right. Something has been that way for a long time and shouldn’t change just because it might be emotionally insensitive to people or offensive to others. Heck, maybe we should go back to the good old days where woman couldn’t vote or were beaten by the husband. Sometimes things need to change and this is one of those times.

    • Ned Tolenet

      Girls often sit on shoulders so they can see better. Are you saying they shouldn’t because that means they are game for getting their tits out? I suppose wearing a short skirt would also mean they are game for non-consensual sex too.

      • Rotten

        Ever had a girl sit on your shoulders? It doesn’t make the gig any more fun for you, it’s a sad truth but tits are currency as it the strength and height of man, its evolutionary.

      • Egg

        Are you implying that we have to pay for being slightly shorter by exposing ourselves? I am shorter than average and often get offered a lift up at gigs and festivals but never ask, do I have to ‘pay’? I think not…

    • Barney Carroll

      “realize some facts about Download … 3rd Grow the hell up”

      Read this back to yourself mate. Go on, I dare ya.

      • Matt Bod Pittaway

        Jesus christ this is the problem with the world someone dosent like something and they all jump on the band wagon … Why did the women in question get booed???? i can tell you exactly why … they tried to partake in something and then changed their minds which with respect to them they are entitled to do …. the boo’s in question only occurred during the times when no one was playing on stage … i didn’t see one band stop playing or ask a camera to move to a girl on a guys shoulders … so rather than getting on yer fucking high horses ask yourself why this guy felt the need to rant … because he didn’t like something that was easily avoidable … Dont get on shoulders while bands aren’t playing… you cant change the rules of a game when they cards are already dealt boys

      • Rotten

        Exactly a fucking boo isn’t the end of the god damn world.

      • Barney Carroll

        Is it worth writing a blog post about though? And, if it is (for the sake of argument), is that blog post worth commenting on?

      • Barney Carroll

        “this is the problem with the world ” priceless!

      • Bum

        Please just stop. Your reasoning is painfully stupid. I assume you think the saying ‘if she didn’t say no, then it’s not rape’ is a sensible. one.

      • charmer72

        Excellent article, and damn right! In any other situation this would be known as sexual harassment/assault and whether or not a guy is slapped in the mosh pit for pulling a girl’s top is irrelevant. Sexual assault is a crime. This type of behaviour is what puts people off going to festivals.
        What this guy is saying is that if we consider our music to be against conformity, then stop conforming to stereotypes of masculinity or expecting women to be your objects. If you do this you’re no different to the chavs in the street.
        To the women who want to pull their tops up, fine, but just remember not to complain if a guy flashes you in an alley…
        Oh and to the person who mentioned Motley Crue- all those ‘cat-calling’ hair metal eighties bands are shit and always have been. As proven by the likes of Snoop Dogg, promoting rape and sexism just demonstrates you have nothing else to offer by way of talent….

    • Catherine Morris

      “we have enough feminists in the world without the men joining in too” – actually, we don’t, and funnily enough, we need men to be feminists too. haven’t you heard of the bystander effect? you and your mates may have absolutely no bad intentions towards these girls whatsoever, but can you say the same for every single other man in a crowd of literally thousands of people?

      you need to look at the people around you, not just yourselves. there will always be that one person that takes it too far because, based on the reaction of others, he thinks it’s okay. unless not objectifying women is a really big obstacle to you living your life i don’t see that it’s such a huge sacrifice for you – and i don’t mean you specifically, i mean every guy in the audience – to refrain from actively pressuring them into exposing themselves.

      obviously girls can do what they want with their bodies, but i have to say i seriously doubt they would have the urge to flash their boobs in the first place without knowing already that it’s supposedly ‘tradition’ and ‘rock ‘n’ roll’. funnily enough it didn’t happen in the tents where there were no cameras. and yes, people actually were pulling down girls’ tops for them – i saw it myself. now that is not cool.

      also guys, please watch this if you don’t know what i’m talking about: http://www.upworthy.com/a-ted-talk-that-might-turn-every-man-who-watches-it-into-a-feminist-its-pretty-fantastic-7

      peace xo

  • James Meade

    Frankly, breasts aren’t THAT interesting to look at, especially at a metal festival; if I wanted to see them, I’d go onto the Internet or have sex with my girlfriend – none of that means I have to spend £200 to go to a metal festival. Last I checked, the alternative scene was about listening to alternative music/talking to people who also like alternative music, not standing in a field looking at a girl getting her tits out…

  • Olivia Backhouse

    Whether you choose to believe me or not I’m actually the girl in the picture you’ve used in this article. I was 21 at the time.

    I’m a university graduate with a full time job. I fully support myself, so to the woman who commented saying ‘ladies don’t mentally mature until their mid-to-late twenties’ I think you’ll find most do.

    With the alternative music scene, yes, it is quite common for people to comment on ‘metalheads’ behaviour. Maybe not to the extremity of calling them ‘ imbecilic animals’ but none the less, don’t people who enjoy chart or dance music have assumptions made about them?

    If, when enjoying watching a band, people want to crowd surf, pitt, par take in the wall of death or flash their breasts it’s entirely their prerogative. As long as it causes others no harm, who are you or anyone to suggest what’s acceptable and not acceptable to do?

    Sometimes I like to crowd surf, that time I decided to flash. At no point was I bullied into doing either.

    If a guy flashes his chest on camera the crowd cheers, it’s all light hearted! I have never heard a male boo at a girl for not getting her breasts out in an aggressive way, nor have I heard guys shout at a girl in an aggressive way for her to flash and I’ve been attending download for 8 years, as well as various other festivals.

    The day of that picture was the best day of my life, I was in the snake pit all day, won a meet and greet for a band and steel panther was my favourite band at the time.

    Do any of the girls in the video below look forced into flashing? Does the girl at 2.20 who refuses to flash look bullied or do people around her look like they’re trying to force her to flash? NO

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7ILDT52qrQ

    If you are the type of person who enjoys watching a band stood at the back with a beer then you do that but don’t rain on other peoples parade if they decide to enjoy themselves by crowd surfing or flashing.

    • Ned Tolenet

      The majority of your post is irrelevant. Some people do not sit on shoulders because they wish to expose themselves. Having a cameraman repeatedly hound them, the expectation and the pressure to do so, the thousands of people booing them if they don’t; is all just wrong. All the videos and testimonials of people who are smiling as they do it do not change that fact.
      You assertion that people who do not enjoy watching young women being made to feel uncomfortable is synonymous with “standing at the back” is idiotic and just the kind of ‘rock and roll!’ argument we could do without.

      • Olivia Backhouse

        My point was more than valid. A girl was on someones shoulders, didn’t flash and didn’t look ‘bullied’ when people may have boo’ed.

        It’s funny how no girls start these articles nor have any who have been ‘subjected to booing or pressured to flash’ comment on them, have you ever thought they don’t feel bullied or threatened and they shrug off the boo’s as they know it’s not meant in an aggressive way?

        If watching young women flashing makes you uncomfortable then that’s your own problem. Old men urinating in front of me isn’t exactly a nice thing to see but I don’t go around making blogs about it. It’s what happens at a festival!

      • Ned Tolenet

        I didn’t say your point was invalid, I said talking about Steel Panther and having a degree is irrelevant.

        I don’t understand what the gender of the author has to do with anything either. That’s like saying “well my gay friend is against gay marriage” or “my black friend found that racist joke funny so..” and expecting the argument to be won on the basis that only those that suffer can be offended or have an opinion on it.

        I didn’t say anywhere that watching young women flashing makes me uncomfortable.

        People urinating in camp sites is going to be a tough thing to stop happening but by all means make a blog and encourage discussion about it. I really don’t understand why people are getting so upset about a post that is attempting to highlight an issue that could damage vulnerable people and is easily avoidable (i.e. Download Festival cameras director, grow the fuck up!).

      • Olivia Backhouse

        If you read my reply properly you would have realised that part was directed at a woman who commented below this post.

        How can gender not have anything to do with it, you as a male are commenting on how YOU believe the females are thinking/feeling when you have not heard any of their opinions. Did you ask any girls who had boo’s or chants directed at them for not flashing?

        I’m not saying I want it to stop happening I’m just saying, it happens get over it.

        To be quite honest I find this article and your comments insulting to females. You’re implying they don’t have a backbone and may give in to ‘peer pressure’ as they’re vulnerable.

        So should pitts be stopped as it might highlight an issue of people who don’t want to go in a pitt but because they’re on the edge they may feel they have to give in to it because everyone else on the edge does?

      • Ned Tolenet

        I don’t see anyone else in this reply thread so forgive me if I am unable to distinguish what is and is not intended as a reply to me when you post comments (after clicking ‘reply’ to mine).

        You assume I am a male, but this is fake profile. Again, my gender should neither negate nor reinforce my opinion.

        No, I haven’t spoken first hand to those who have been booed, and you are the only person in the comments section so far that has either exposed themselves or been encouraged to. I welcome the observations of those who have been projected onto the big screens (for better or for worse) but again you seem to think it makes viewpoints like mine redundant.

        To use another example, a colleague of mine recently had several teeth punched out and a rib broken by an angry boyfriend. She still tells me he’s a nice guy really. By your logic, she knows best. Domestic abuse happens, get over it.

        I think everybody agrees that young adults who are into alternative scenes have the potential to give into peer pressure and if they are 15, sure, are considered vulnerable. This is true of both male and female festival goers and neither I nor the author have implied these accusations apply to one gender moreso than the other. I disagree strongly with your accusation that my comments are insulting to women.

        Your pit analogy does not hold, there are not thousands of people watching you on a large screen and encouraging specifically -you- to enter a pit. However, any other issues at festivals where people are pressured into doing things they don’t want to do? I at least welcome the discussion, rather than cite ‘tradition’.

      • Olivia Backhouse

        Anyone young person in any situation can be put under peer pressure.

        This has blown way out of proportion. Boobs are boobs, if a girl wants to flash let her flash, if she doesn’t she doesn’t. Girls aren’t being pressured just because they’re being boo’ed. Get a grip.

        Have some balls and don’t be anon.

      • Ned Tolenet

        So a cameraman repeatedly showing a girl on the big screen (in a deliberate attempt to provoke flashing) doesn’t constitute pressure? Seriously?

        “Have some balls” is a pretty rich statement coming from someone who has just accused me of making comments that are insulting to women.

      • Olivia Backhouse

        So if a camera guy zooms in on a pit then that’s provoking?
        Girls don’t flash if they don’t want too end of.

      • Ned Tolenet

        No, obviously not. You know between bands the cameramen focus on girls who are on shoulders and those in the comments section have provided anecdotal evidence of people being hounded by the camera staff because they did not flash. Stop being so obstructive and try to explain to me how that doesn’t constitute as pressure.

      • Kev Anthony Bennett

        Actually between bands the cameras are off… guessing you’ve never actually been to download… the cameras are only on while a band is on stage

      • Ned Tolenet

        I’m actually attributing my personal experiences to Reading/sonisphere/download but it’s been a few years since I’ve been to any…it was certainly the case at some of them. Other people have referred specifically to Download 2013 but I am participating because it is in an issue I’ve experienced regardless.

      • Olivia Backhouse

        Ned I love how strong your views are despite not having been to a festival in a few years :’) if the girls don’t want to lift up their tops THEY WON’T

      • Rotten

        This Ned guys a fucking tool. At the end of the day mammaries are sacks of flesh, fat and milk, this article amounts to “slut shaming” although you are not a slut, it is a festival Woodstock was far worse and things are tame, it’s for fun and not for sex, anyway, good on you Olivia, mess this guy up.

      • Guest

        I’m a tool? Coming from the man who spouts rubbish about ‘progressive media ruining rock and roll’?

        Woodstock was a completely different era, but even then you are confusing sexual liberation with something entirely else.

        You’re the only person going on about ‘sluts’, you appear to have completely misunderstood the article.

      • Ned Tolenet

        I’m a tool? Coming from the man who spouts rubbish about ‘progressive media ruining rock and roll’?

        Woodstock was a completely different era, but even then you are confusing sexual liberation with something entirely else.

        You’re the only person going on about ‘sluts’, you appear to have completely misunderstood the article.

      • Rotten

        fuckit they are sluts and i like tits, and if the consequences weren’t so severe i’d rape a young girl

      • Kev Anthony Bennett

        The camera man repeatedly showing girls sat on shoulders is purely to provoke them into flashing their breasts… this has to be the most ridiculous things I’ve seen on the internet…

        The cameras are there to document A. the bands performance and B. The crowds reaction to said bands performance… Download festival sells tickets to all ages above the age of 8… why oh why would they then advocate the use of their own cameras to apply pressure on “impressionable youths” to flash when this is clearly not going to be in keeping with some of their audience…

        I personally witnessed several girls flash when they found themselves on the big screen, this is a matter of choice on the individuals part… I seen many girls attempt to but the cameras purposefully panned away before the girls in question were given the chance… These kinda things are just the kind of thing that happen at music festivals… If anything this kinda behaviour has been less and less seen in recent years… to me this just seems like an attempt to vilify fans of the rock genre…

      • X

        Actually to me (21-year-old girl), having thousands of people boo you for not flashing would DEFINITELY constitute a crapload of peer pressure. It’s unbelievably intimidating, ok? I’m actually starting to feel uncomfortable just thinking about it. I’m shy and have some body issues and the idea alone horrifies me. It would effectively ruin my weekend and I’d feel horribe for days, maybe even weeks, whether I’d actually do it or not.

        Good on you that you’re not easily intimidated and have no problem being topless in public, but that’s not true for all of us and it would be nice if you didn’t reduce the entire conversation to “it’s not a problem to me so it’s not a problem to anyone.”

        Also, just because there’s all kinds of peer pressure everywhere doesn’t mean you can’t complain about one specific kind of peer pressure.

      • Grymnir

        “It’s funny how no girls start these articles”.

        Perhaps you should read this article which is written by a girl:
        http://valkyrianmusic.com/2013/06/30/a-feminist-in-the-metal-scene/

  • Joanne Juiceboxx Wright

    I’ll be dead nice and not retaliate over a statement of such poor accusations, especially with the addition of you councidentally using an image of someone close to me. However, I would like to say there are a damn sight more things to be concerned over at a festival than girls getting their boobs out. It’s light hearted fun not worth getting upset over. If something like that makes you feel the need to write such things over I can’t imagine what you’d have done had you seen the various lads walking around completely naked fully exposed. The choice to get ones boobs out is ultimately, as said, a choice. A decision that is ultimatly down to one person, regardless of peer pressure. These girls know what’s coming at a festival when they’re close and on someone’s shoulders. The choice to get the girls out their ultimate decision, a harmless one at that. One that is no comparison to other obscenities I have witnessed at festivals over the past 6 years. it’s fact that everyone is entitled to their own opinions I’m just so sorry that yours had to be so pessimistic over nothing

    • Ned Tolenet

      “These girls know what’s coming at a festival when they’re close and on someone’s shoulders.”

      This really is just a parallel of the defense people use for rape.

      Please reread the article and realise this is not an attack on those who expose themselves, but an attack on the kind of stupid logic people like you employ – ‘sitting on shoulders = show us ‘yer tits’,

      In my youth I have done things I regret due to peer pressure. I’m not absolved but there is certainly a strong argument for not letting bad decisions propagate when there are simple solutions.

      • Joanne Juiceboxx Wright

        I’m quite aware you weren’t fussing over their behaviour just in the manner you wrote it it comes off otherwise. If someone wants to have harmless fun let them do it. If someone’s going to shout obscenities at them to do so when they don’t. It’s still a decision down to them if they’re going to give in. No one does this kind of stuff(both parties) to make a serious statement.

        And who are you to say what kind of logic and behaviour I approve and disapprove of when you so politely refer to “people like me.

        Personally even if i were on someones shoulder I wouldn’t flash, no matter how much some 30 year old dick seems to be losing his left nut over. It’s not me to do that but if another girl wants to and gets a kick out of it then good for her.

        There is commonly known behaviour at festivals from how the girls act to how the guys act and how everyone in turn effects each other. To get so worked up over this type of festival behaviour is unnecessary. And I personally think is oversensitive. But that’s just me

  • Sophia Backhouse

    I’m Just going to add something here.

    1. That is my sister in the picture above.

    2. You only live once, so she can do what she wants.

    3. I really think you should take the picture off as it look like you are aiming your article at her. If you are not aiming the article at her in particular I suggest you take it off.

    • Ned Tolenet

      1. The article is not an open letter to your sister.

      2. She only lives once, even if that involves getting her tits out and the picture existing on the internet til the end of time.

      3. If she does not like the image being used then it only serves to contradict her previous statements and justify those of others.

      • Sophia Backhouse

        What made you choose her image rather then one of the other hundreds of images out there?

      • Ned Tolenet

        I have nothing to do with Thrash Hits nor their photo selection process. Judging from the caption, it was chosen because it was a relatively recent photo of a girl flashing at a Download event.

      • Joanne Juiceboxx Wright

        Using anyone’s picture for an article like this is unnecessary. You’re pretty descriptive as it is. I don’t know how anyone would need image support when describing a girl sittin on a lads shoulders flashing a band.

      • Ned Tolenet

        Dear Internet,

        No pictures please, you’re pretty descriptive as it is.

        All the best,

        Joanne

      • Joanne Juiceboxx Wright

        No friend- as the writer of this article the choice to use a picture was yours.

      • Ned Tolenet

        I didn’t write this article. The author Tom Doyle has already posted in these comments to clarify a point earlier.

    • Rotten

      Exactly, I am for and against girls flashing, but articles like this amount to “slut-shaming” even when your sister is not a slut, just having some fun, at woodstock people ran around naked, don’t let this sort of progressive media get you or your sister down, they’re what’s wrong with rock and roll

      • Rob Barbour

        This article is *not* slut-shaming. It’s quite clearly most aggrieved by the antics of the crowds who bay for boob and the cameramen who facilitate that desire. Although there is an argument to be made that the freedom to expose yourself should not come at the cost of other people feeling they have to emulate you

  • Craig Priestley

    Totally disagree. If girls want to flash, they flash. If they don’t, they don’t. End of and it shouldn’t be worthy of an article this long.

    • Olivia Backhouse

      Best comment!

  • Dan

    Wait we’re stopping people getting their tits out? :( sucks to be the naked guy standing on the guy’s shoulders, wonder what that’s gonna provoke!

    yeha it’s their choice, but if a hot 18 y/o wants to do it… I’m not complaining!

  • Rob Barbour

    The comments under this piece demonstrate just how necessary it was. I do think it was a miscalculation to use that photo, although the article clearly isn’t an attack on women who choose to participate in this ‘tradition’. It’s quite plainly calling out the culture which means some feel obligated or are bullied into doing so when they don’t want to.

    If you want to get ‘em out no-one’s stopping you but to argue that women know what they’re letting themselves in for by getting on someone’s shoulders at a music festival is analogous to arguing that women who don’t want to be raped should ‘avoid dressing like sluts’.

    • Olivia Backhouse

      Regardless of whether a girl gets on someone’s shoulders. Who has even suggested girls feel pressured to flash?! Where are all these girls who feel pressured? Because I’ve been going 8 years and haven’t saw 1 girl who has been ‘bullied’ into flashing.

      • Rob Barbour

        I’m taking in good faith the author’s assertion that he witnessed ‘repeated visits to those who refused to lift their tops first time of asking until peer pressure proved too much and they succumbed’.

        Just because you didn’t see it, that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

      • Olivia Backhouse

        Yes I witnessed many a time girls being zoomed in on more than once NEVER have I witnessed anyone who looks like they’ve been pressured into it. This article is obsurd

  • Rotten

    You do understand that at Woodstock a shit load of people were naked etc. shit has gotten tame as hell, I’m reading so much shit about people whining and wingeing about mosh pits, or a bit of piss, or being squished, or being left out of some fun, jesus christ what happened to us, we’re meant to be at least a little hardcore, it’s a fucking festival, stop with all this slightly left of the centre, moderate liberalism crap, the mainstream may promote sex and violence, and we may be the subculture that supposedly opposes whatever they do but lets not become boring fucks in the process, keep some of the insanity in our blood, maybe your just too old, yet you’re probably younger than me

    • Rotten

      Just to clarify, I don’t think we should go around raping these girls, or sodomising them and whatever, but if they do it do it, and if they don’t don’t, we don’t need a goddamned wingeing article from the intelligensia on it.

    • Ned Tolenet

      Keep some insanity, let girls of questionable age/sobriety levels be hounded by camera staff and goaded by punters into exposing themselves on a big screen in front of thousands of people for them to regret later/see documented online forever more.

      • Rotten

        What won’t kill you will make you stronger, I’m not saying i agree if I see a girl getting hounded and she obviously doesn’t want her we encourage her not to do it, likewise I met this youngish woman at download passed out and men were just groping her, I picked her up and took her to a medical tent, it’s just that articles like this, which girls who do show their tits will see, shame them and add a whole new dimension to whatever they thought about themselves flashing, they probably shrugged it off as a mistake and put it down to being too drunk and it was a crazy night or something, shit like this makes it an issue up for debate and victimises these young women, at the same time, it is a festival, worse things will happen, and for christ sakes its rock and roll

      • Ned Tolenet

        Nothing says rock and roll like sexual assault.

      • Rotten

        Jesus, stop giving these slogan answers man, I’m not saying i approve, but articles like this, albeit benevolent in nature, intensify the issue and cause the girls who do flash pain which they may not feel otherwise, this article does nothing for them, but suggests that the girls who do not flash are victims because they are boo’d, which is by far not the worst thing in the world or even at a festival, I’m just saying it is a festival, woodstock was worse, festivals in the past were worse, things are tame now, don;t try to make it even more tame

      • Rotten

        furthermore, yeah sexual assault is fucking rock and roll, so is rape murder pillage and being a cunt

  • Kev Anthony Bennett

    This issue is so open to interpretation… how can any one person truly state the intentions of download cameramen without personally having the cameramen themselves or Download Festivals video directors state their intentions as a matter of fact??? This article, is the opinion of one person and it may well be shared by several people… however it could be seen to be vilifying the fans themselves as some kind of Viking tribe hell bent on getting what they want?! Seems more than a little silly to me… end of the day personal choice needs to be considered… if i was on the stage or pictured on the crowd on the big screen and people were baying for me to drop my trousers, no matter how many times they tried to get me to do it id response in the discernibly negative, no one can force them so peer pressure as an avenue for argument is flawed surely? I personally think that this is a silly argument because this kind of thing goes on at all kinds of music shows so singling out one event for special scrutiny is a form of segregation and prejudice…

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2337585/Rihanna-gives-delighted-male-fan-lapdance-stage.html That article is about how pop singer Rihanna gave a fan a lapdance on stage at a live show… how can this be considered fine yet the events at the download festival are considered some kind of vile crime against human decency?? Glorifying sexual deviance and “slutty” behaviour before through actions and the lyrics of her music…

    I’m tired of music press vilifying and segregating music fans and promoting stereotypes, its boring and so narrow minded

  • Tish

    The comments on this article are proof of how much this article is needed. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m a girl, I’ve been to Download, and I have in fact had friends who have flashed and loved it and not given a fuck. That’s super cool and I have no problem with it, no matter how many women do it. BUT I have also experienced women who do not wish to do this and HAVE BEEN BOOED, as the article suggests. A womens body is hers to do whatever she wish, and it is not anybody elses place, man or woman, to penalise her for not doing something. People in general are impressionable, not just women, and being booed for doing something your own way, is most definately peer pressure. End of.

  • Geoff Owen

    90+ comments in and the point of the article has been totally missed by many and some of the comments wouldn’t look out of place under a Daily Mail article. Sad.

    “These liberals are trying to take away my titties!”

  • Kev Anthony Bennett

    The only thing I’ve seen in relation to girls flashing which I feel disgusted about was the odd occasion were someone tried to either pull someone’s top down or try to cop a feel… these sort of incidents are more plausible areas for an argument, more should be done to prevent this from happening

    • Geoff Owen

      Why do you think that happens? What helps to create an environment where men think it’s ok to do that? Could it be cameras focusing in on girls and thousands of men yelling at them to get their tits out? Yes, I think it might be.

      • Kev Anthony Bennett

        I seen it happen twice during the weekend and in both incidents the crowd boo’ed the culprit… I personally feel that the majority of the time it comes down to personal choice but when someone (one idiot out of thousands) decides to touch someone or pull down their top that is were the line is drawn… there will always be one a minority who choose to try and spoil the atmosphere and its up to event organisers, the police and security to deal with these idiots… like I said in previous comments on this article, the cameras are there to document the band and the crowd and if someone flashes then oh well thats their problem… I agree with some aspects and Live Nation and Downloads organisers, video directors etc should come forward with some kind of response in relation to whether people were actively targeted in hope they’d flash the big screen… until then saying this was the case is idol speculation

      • Geoff Owen

        I think the intentions of the camera operators is irrelevant when the effect of their actions is clear to see. The effect of their actions is that every time they show a close up of a girl, a large number of men scream at her to get her tits out. You can’t deny that that is the effect, intentional or not.

        It also doesn’t matter that it happens in other genres. We are supposed to be an alternative culture. In what way is yelling at girls to get their tits out an alternative to the mainstream?

      • Kev Anthony Bennett

        Did you attend this years Download? I only heard fans cheer when someone flashed and no chants or such for someone to flash… if you did then what you witnessed was a minority group amongst the crowd

        I relation to your comments on alternative vs mainstream culture, that’s just a silly thing to say, seriously?! Download Festival (Monsters of rock etc) has been taking place for 30+ years and this kinda thing has been happening since the start so it is part of the festival culture surely?! I’m not saying that I think girls should do it or not do it, I’m just saying they should have the freedom to make their own choice and live with the consequence… I’ve been to the last 7 Download festivals and this year was tame compared to the first year I went… I’m just wandering why its suddenly become this huge issue? You can’t blame camera work for the behaviour of individuals

      • Geoff Owen

        I didn’t attend this year but the conversation is relevant to the culture as a whole and to all festivals.

        Just because something has happened for a long time doesn’t mean we shouldn’t seek to challenge things and improve things.

        The camera close ups legitimise the behaviour.

        If you’re happy for it to continue that’s fine, I believe that we should look at the way women are treated in this scene and this type of conversation and article are important for that.

      • Kev Anthony Bennett

        I’m stating that if a girl gets on someone’s shoulders and wishes to flash of her own free will then that is fair enough… but if someone is then going to try and touch her or pull her top down etc then this needs to be stamped out because it is appalling behaviour in any circle and being drunk and rowdy is no excuse for it… If you did that to a girl in the street it’d be classed as sexual assault so why should it be different at a music festival… you make valid points, most people are but there will be people who see this as people targeting these girls and painting them as deviants and sluts etc… not agree?

      • Geoff Owen

        I agree that that is unacceptable behaviour. I believe that we need to look at the environment and atmosphere that leads to this happening rather than accepting the safe answer that it is down to drunk individuals.

        Also, if people misinterpret the article that’s their fault for not reading it properly and and definitely not a valid reason for not writing about this issue.

  • Janusz Jasinski

    “Live Nation does not condone such behaviour in any way. The incident in question is being taken very seriously and is currently under investigation.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAUSbYLP3HU
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xslro0_download-festival-2012-tits-compilation_redband#.UcRCMfnV-iM

  • Janusz Jasinski

    The biggest tits I saw all weekend were Thirty Seconds to Mars

    I’M SO EDGY

  • mell

    i feel like you might want to consider that the majority of girls who flash at concerts do so because they want to and because they like the attention. and noone really minds seeing a few tits now and again, so i’m not really getting where the issue is.

    i did love the attempt at feminism in the article suggesting that metal is the place to get away from gender stereotypes. i found it quite ironically placed shortly after the shot from the steel panther set, given that fifty percent of their songs are about objectifying women and treating them like pieces of meat. the other fifty percent are about how awesome metal is. you might want to reconsider that opinion too.

    • Rob Barbour

      You might want to reread the article and you might want to reconsider whether you actually understood it

  • fagyisrobi

    Get ‘em out you slaaaag!!! XD

  • unity_ministry

    I can’t speak for this year’s Festival as I wasn’t able to go but to put the other side of Download.

    In 2006, we took my son and our 15 year old niece to the Festival for, amongst other things, Metallica’s Master of Puppets anniversary set, and for me that was 21 years on from the first time I saw Metallica at Donington – I was there is 1985.

    My niece has decided to go Goth the previous year and had been having a terrible time at school as a result with near constant bullying. Nothing physical, just a constant stream of negative comments, staring and other verbal hassles from other kids that was absolutely destroying her confidence. She was about as low as I ever seen her, and she’d never been the most confident of kids anyway.

    So, we took her Download, and for five days (because we went up on Wednesday) she was able to wander happily around the festival site without people staring, or commenting on her or giving a toss about her appearance. In fact the only comment she got about the way she looked the whole time were were there was from a woman in early 20s who ran up to her on the Friday evening, squealed ‘ooh look, a cute baby Goth’ and gave her a big hug.

    That few days amongst people who just accepted her for who and what she is was exactly what she needed at the time to boost her confidence and she’s never looked back since, so let’s not get too down on Download because a bit of stupid behaviour in the arena. I’ve met a lot of good people at Donington over the years, far more than I’ve encountered idiots and we shouldn’t forget that.

    • Tom

      Hi,

      Two very quick things I’d like to say about the above:

      1) It is rad as fuck that your niece had that experience at Download. Heartwarming, generally wonderful and exactly what Donington should be all about. It is awesome that she, if only for a weekend, felt like she could be herself. Also awesome that you took your whole family and hung out, I saw a few families this weekend and I always think it is really cool for a whole bunch of people from one family to come out.

      2) I’m not suggesting that all people who like metal or rock music are ‘bad people’. Quite the opposite, they are some of the best people I have ever met, almost all of my friends I have met through this music and as I said in the article I love it with an intense passion. I totally agree that there are more good people than idiots, call me a dreamer but I think that is true of almost all aspects of life. As I tried to say at the very top, Download was amazing this year, as it is every year, it’s just this one aspect of what I saw while I was there made me feel a little uncomfortable.

      Cheers

      Tom

  • Sagacious

    Boo-urns, they’re saying Boo-urns.

  • Matt

    During (Alice In Chains?) there was a group of morons next to myself and my brother. Every single time a female appeared on those screens all we could hear was “Go on, love,” “Get them out!” and so on. Followed by booing or some comment if the woman/girl did not flash for the crowd. Who are these baboons that so desperately need to see breasts at regular intervals to feel gratified. Are they all too devoid of common decency to experience sexual satisfaction in their own lives? Stop giving men a bad name! It’s just a bit sad. I saw the exact same thing happen at Leeds festival last year. Ultimately, the camera operators need to be held responsible for promoting this behavior.

  • Beth Schmiedhuber

    I agree completely, how come us chicks aren’t allowed to get a better view and have fun sitting on someone’s shoulders without getting booed for not getting our tits out? If a girl wants to do it, fair enough (none of the guys will have any respect for you but that’s your choice) but for a camera to repeatedly go back to a girl who did not want to expose herself and to get booed at by the crowd is just wrong!

    • philthy alfred

      Why disrespect a girls just because she shows her tits? Prude much?

  • Sarah

    Thank you for writing this, although I’m sure you guessed what you were in for in the comments section (pretty much every disgusting bullshit excuse for sexist behavior on the list, it seems).

  • Natalie

    “we have enough feminists in the world without the men joining in too” Is the only comment I had to read to make me hate everything.

    • philthy alfred

      I agree with that comment 100%! FEMINIST OUT OF METAL !

  • Kitty

    If girls either do or dont want to get their boobs out then both is fine, what worried me more was that on several occasions I saw girls on the screens who were having to slap away prying hands that were trying to force their tops up against their will. Since when did that become acceptable?

    • Rob Barbour

      Exactly. The culture of tit-flashing and ‘tit-cam’ creates the kind of environment where people feel that they can behave like this and that’s totally unacceptable.

  • FUN POLICE!!!!

    i’m sorry but i really don’t agree with this. Being a woman at Download i saw nothing of the sort of feral mob that is being portrayed in this article. If a woman wants to flash her breasts then fine it’s a bit of fun at the end of the day. If a woman didn’t want to flash she would simply cross her arms over her chest or flip off the cameraman and that was that. People were booing but it was good natured and no-one was pressured into doing it on the contrary when certain bands were playing you always saw the same girls flashing on the wide shots. I think its a good thing a woman can feel safe and confident enough for her to do this, then that shows its a brilliant atmosphere of a festival. If your going to be the fun police then download will be better off without you next year instead of trying to stain its reputation.
    Going to put my best bra on next year just in case.

  • E

    I love the flashing at festivals, i cheer loudly! but the booing/camera pressure/groping is out of order.

    If someone just wants to sit on a friends shoulders and make ‘the horns’ or pull a funny face that is there choice to make (as well as usually being funny) and no one should ever be pressured to do anything.

  • Peat

    To answer Andy Copping’s tweet (assuming no one else has done so) – the gimp has presumably chosen to be there; the girls hadn’t signed up to be heckling into showing their breasts. Massive difference if you ask me.

  • Phili

    While its completely up to the girl if she decides to get her boobs out, I think it’s absolutely disgusting and de-grading of the cameraman to go back repeatedly to the girls who haven’t done it. If they don’t wanna do it let them be. I’m not opposed to seeing a bit of boob on the screen but I think the cameramen did to sort themselves out to be honest. It’s just a bit of fun and these camera men are like animals stalking prey.

  • Rocky McRock

    Well I can’t think of any other social event where the behaviour – either the girls’ or the crowd’s – would be seen as acceptable, or even legal. The young ladies exposing their boobs is part of the scene to some extent and I tend to shrug when it happens. If I cheered at all, it was in recognition of the confidence and courage of the young lady in question, or because – to be brutally honest – boobies make me smile. However, I do agree very much with the Tom’s point about the reaction to those ladies who do *not* want to pull their tops up/expose themselves. By constantly focusing on them, booing, peer-pressure, call it what you will, the cameramen and certain parts of the crowd are basically indulging in a vile form of sexual bullying. If a lady/girl clearly does not want to expose herself for her own thrills or for the sexual gratification of a crowd, then leave her the fuck alone!

  • philthy alfred

    Join FOOM ! FEMINIST OUT OF METAL !

  • charmer72

    Damn right! In any other situation this would be known as sexual harassment/assault and whether or not a guy is slapped in the mosh pit for pulling a girl’s top is irrelevant. Sexual assault is a crime. This type of behaviour is what puts people off going to festivals.
    What this guy is saying is that if we consider our music to be against conformity, then stop conforming to stereotypes of masculinity or expecting women to be your objects. If you do this you’re no different to the chavs in the street.
    To the women who want to pull their tops up, fine, but just remember not to complain if a guy flashes you in an alley…
    Oh and to the person who mentioned Motley Crue- all those ‘cat-calling’ hair metal eighties bands are shit and always have been. As proven by the likes of Snoop Dogg, promoting rape and sexism just demonstrates you have nothing else to offer by way of talent….

  • The Whistleblower

    Haha! Is this article for real?! I’m guessing the Klondike who wrote this article has been overly mothered. Its 5 days of fun where like minded metalheads get together and no one thinks differently about someone else boobs out or not! Man up!

    • Rob Barbour

      Except that’s not true, is it? Girls get booed for not ‘joining in’ and in some cases get exposed and/or groped by strangers. Nice attempt at an ad hominem attack on the author there, pretty much a neon signal indicating that your argument has no substance.

  • YouEmbarrassMe

    How fucking old are some of the sexist idiots who are posting on here.

    ‘it’s been happening for years’ is not an argument for the continuation of sexist and derogatory behaviour. I fucking love rock and metal but this part of it is a fucking joke. So many people sucked into believing that acting this way is acceptable and allowable is an embarrassment to fucking humans, not just Metal Heads.

  • lrostoke

    considering this as been happening for a fair few years and band like Motley Crue invented the tittie cam, Steel Panther copied it. Isn’t it safe to assume that if a girl gets up on somebodies shoulders she may just have a bit of a clue the cameras going to end up on her. OK it shouldn’t be assumed she will get the fun buns out and camera should f*ck off if its obvious she’s not there to flash

  • theowlsarenot

    I saw a girl who repeatedly had her breasts grabbed and clothing pulled at when she refused to reveal herself. On the big screens. While people cheered. Properly horrendous

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  • Tabitha

    I want to wholeheartedly thank you for writing this. Download this year was my first music festival. The bands were incredible. It really was an experience I’ll never forget. However, I have never seen such blatant sexism on this scale in my life. Who else was there when A Day to Remember were about to play? wtf? In what scenario is that kind of behaviour okay?
    I think, perhaps, that a handful of girls go to see a band with the intent of flashing at the camera. Now, while I would never do this, I accept that some are simply swept up in the moment and just think it’s fun – something they’d never do in everyday life. Again, while I don’t agree with it, it’s their choice to make.
    The real fault lies with the cameramen. Zooming in on girls four or five times until they cave – and even then, one was booed because she only flashed her bra. This is not just a bit of fun. This is sexual bullying, pure and simple. I hate that this incident tarnished what was otherwise a brilliant weekend.

  • Devils Advocate

    You could see it as a tax for having a better view. I mean by them sitting on someone’s shoulders then they are blocking a lot of other people’s view. Get down if you don’t want to be singled out.

    • Rob Barbour

      Going to go out on a limb here and assume you’re a guy.

  • Nick

    This happens at all the major festivals now. Not quite sure why Donington is being singled out for this. It was happening continuously at Leeds festival last year and no one said a word then.

  • Derp

    I’ve never read an article that makes flashing sound dull. I can see where you’re coming from and if someone doesn’t want to do it, they don’t have to. As for any individual who pulls down a gals top because they won’t flash, then they need a belt round the ear and to be taught some god damn manners.
    Don’t make such a beautiful thing as boob flashing at festivals a shit thing. Political correctness has gone mad. Women are equal in every way in my eyes and are as much as obliged to do what they want to as men.
    This is such an unprofessionally written piece of garbage I very nearly didn’t comment. Having an opinion on the topic is fair enough but to add personal comments about one bloke who called someone a slag just isn’t good journalism.

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